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CAN WE TALK?

It’s safe to say that the last Outrage, “Hypocrite Bush”, was one of the least popular we’ve ever written – in fact, it seems like most readers hated it. We got plenty of        feedback – some reader comments amused us,some surprised us, and some made us wonder what our readers really think. In the immortal words of Joan Rivers, can we talk?

Some readers suggested that we should never condone violence, even in jest. Is violence ever justified? If someone broke into your house and stole your TV set, would you be justified in using force to stop that person? If someone stole everything you had, what should the punishment be? Should corporate executives who embezzle money be harshly punished? But in none of these cases does the magnitude of the crime approach taking $190 billion of hard-earned taxpayer money, and using that money to secure political advantage. Since politicians make and enforce the laws they can, in general, make sure that when they take other people’s money their actions don’t violate the law. But is any legal action a defensible action?

One might take the point of view that the greater the crime, the harsher the punishment. If someone is convicted of stealing a car, they might serve, what, two years? But if a politician such as President Bush violates everything he has said about the virtues of free-markets, and betrays the voter’s trust, and misuses tax dollars to secure his own political ambitions, should he or she not be punished?

Other readers accused us of not being sufficiently “detached” in our commentary. Hey, if you want detachment, you can read bland pseudo intellectuals like George Will. We’re Outraged, always have been, probably always will be. (With all its disappointments, one of the virtues of the Net has been that it’s a forum for ideas, and passions, that lie outside the mainstream. If you want moderation, read the New York Times.) Were the founding fathers “detached” when they wrote about the abuses of British power during the revolutionary struggle? I don’t think so. Detached analysis is fine for think tank wonks, but it rarely engenders the sort of passion that leads to real change.

As for those readers who defended subsidies as a way of protecting the small family farm, we think you ought to look at who really gets most of the money – big farmers, not small ones. Big farmers who live betterthan you or I, my friend. And as to protecting the small farmer, are you also willing to pay taxes to subsidize the small family owner grocer? How about small, family run law firms? We know you’re willing to subsidize family political dynasties.

We also wonder what Outrage readers really believe in? Here at the Outrage, there’s no question about the matter – we believe in the sovereignty of each individual: without harming others, each individual should be able to spend his or her life, and money, in whatever way they see fit, according to their own values. We don’t really care about political parties or politicians, except to the extent that they violate our basic principles. But do you care about ideas, or people? If you’re a Republican, do you support George Bush, even when he violates the ideals he was elected to represent? If you’re a Democrat, do you support Bill Clinton, even if he harasses, or even rapes, women? What matters to you more, the person, the party, or the idea?

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0 thoughts on “CAN WE TALK?

  1. Actually, I was impressed that you guys finally seemed outraged at something. Most Outrages seem rather bland. It was nice to see someone with an opinion for a change, whether I agree withit or not.

  2. You guys are right on with this one! In fact, I find it quite disturbing that you actually had to send out a clarification statement to Outrage readers. That’s the real ‘outrage’!

  3. Hang in there! Some Republicans have a blind religious faith when it comes to Dubya. I’m a Christian Libertarian, and there is nothing Christian about what you chastized W for in your Outrage.

  4. Good outrage. Bush is just too compassionate with the big farmers and the energy moguls. He gives each what they want. The Agribusinesses get subsidies they want. The enrgy guys just want to be left alone free enterprise dudes who will have chance to screw California in the name of Free enterprise. But they also want to open up Alaska to get any oil that’s there. I guess I miss the principle here unless it is “help your friends and screw the rest.”

  5. I think I hate you for showing me how two-faced, hypocritical, and duplicious my views are. I really hate questioning myself when I just know I’m right… Now, I’m going to turn over and go back to sleep, and dream about dropping bombs on really rotten and mean people. Shuuuuuuuuush… Don’t make me think.

  6. i think you are right on.
    the idea is much more important than the party

    I will take your advice and read those others instead of The Outrage. Will go Unsub now. Maybe once in a while you might try actually “listening” to your readers when they reply instead of assuming they are all so stupid as aparently you do.

  7. I have read the last Outrage on Bush. I could not agree more. This is when we put what he has done in the storage banks and use our freedom to weigh all the good against all the bad, then decide if you will help re-elect the man. Unfortunate that we are all still human and fall short of the glory of God! Hope you will not cut the finger off of your proof reader for the error in the first line of today’s Can We Talk, after all letting the spell check do the work and using OWN instead of ONE certainly presents the idea that even the OUTRAGE staff is human and flawed. Be it on just a slightly smaller scale!! LOL LOL Keep up the great work. Ken Smile!!!

  8. Most americans are sheep-people, or sheeple as I prefer. So many are ignorant and just plain stupid! Don’t they realize that crackhead-gwb IS responsible for 9-11?! All it takes is some common sense and a bit of time searching the web for the TRUTH!

  9. You see the biggest problem by far with the latest outrage is we actually have stupid people that may actually take you up on your proposal of shooting someone… Keep up the good work, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

  10. Yeah, it’s an outrage, but let’s not lose sight of the big picture. Our buds (both D & R) in the senate and the house voted for the thing and the house is the one that will make it possible by appropriating funds for it. Seems a bit odd to blame only Bush for it, don’t you think? Let’s get real here. The only difference between either party is that a different group of people get a bigger portion from the public trough depending on which party is in power. The rest of us all have one thing in common: we pay for it.

  11. You can jump all over Bush all you want, but I didn’t see you as Outraged at the previous administration of Clinton. Impeached? Should have never happened…Clinton should have been tried for treason and punished accordingly. The fact that the Bush administration is still sorting though the filth left by the previous hideous 8 years should allow for some slack. Don’t get me wrong…I voted for Bush and he’s ticked me off too. By the way…Enron was a Clinton scourge…not Republican.

  12. You just don’t get it. First of all, George Will is not a “pseudo-intellectual”, he is an intellectual. Second of all, if you don’t support George Bush, then you by default support Tom Delany/Al Gore, etc. and they are a lot worse than George Bush ever thought about being. You idiots at Outrage are so libertarian in your ideas you probably also support the recent Supreme Court decision that virtual child porn is acceptable under the 1st Amendment.

  13. If you are a Libertarian you think that Bush and Clinton
    both have issues! Good questions about subsidizing….
    NO ONE wants to subsidize a small family law firm, great point!
    All subsidies are a form of welfare and until people come to that
    realization we will have the inequity, or senseless, subsidizing of
    certain things while not others. End ALL subsidies!!!

  14. I agree with your observations on “GW” and concur with your conclusions. Unfortunately, it seems that elected office is now synonymous with a license to steal, or to divert funds to personal benefit without regard to honor or ethics. You should, by now, be fully aware that your perceptiveness and honesty have put you in the role of the “stranger in a strange land.” When I was a child, your supporters would have been legion. I am no longer a child, and the very concepts of morality, ethics, and principle have largely gone the way of the Dodo Bird. My Grandfather was born in a covered wagon en route to California via the Emigrant Trail. Thank God he lived long enough to instill those concepts in me. Don’t give up the good fight, and never lose your Outrage. As my Grandfather used to say, “Live and work as honorably as you can, and always keep the forked-end down and your head UP!” Stay strong, Friend.

  15. Seems to me that Bush is trying to undercut former President Carter’s visit to Cuba so that he can get the Florida Cuban exile vote for his brother to be re-elected in Florida. This administration is much more corrupt than the comparatively mildly corrupt previous administration with its sanctimonious empty rhetoric on one hand and the spending of tax dollars to gain votes. Hope the voters realize this and turn both houses of Congress over to the Democratic Party this fall.

  16. I’ve never responded to any of your comments before, but when I heard that your readers had such a negative reaction to the “HYPOCRITE BUSH!” article, I just had to voice my support for what you said. You are right on target. I am somewhat conservative(member of the Libertarian Party) and when Bill Clinton was in office, I was often amazed at the mindless support he got from liberals. Now that Bush is president, I see the conservative Republican types doing the same damn thing. Keep up the good work.

  17. keep exposing the 91 iq 1/2 wit. he stole the election and the world thinks he’s mr. wonderful. look what he hasdone : we had 3 trillion dollars and now its gone. we had social security and now its about gone. i could go on but my blood presure has gone through the roof. paul

  18. I thought the article on farm subsidies was right on target! My husband has been saying that for years – minus the violent part, which didn’t offend me … it just made me laugh. But what really gets me is that the Republician party is supposed to be for LESS government…how does that work? Well it gets Bush elected again…at least that’s what his obvious intent is. And I find it nauseating how some people who hate Clinton try to say he’s a rapist….just because one of our presidents gets ‘serviced’ does not mean this, they’re plenty of other presidential ‘indescretions’ that involve ‘popular, respected’ presidents that are far worser and not known about to the general public. And the impeachment stunk of Republician’s extremes to get the office back into their ‘rich, power mongers’ hands. My only hope is that the Democratics will get it TOGETHER and find someone who can beat Bush by a great number so they can’t pull the same tricks they did to get him in the office this time! This coming election I say RALLY DEMOCRATICS RALLY !! If you want the country back into the hands of “real people” without corrupt big business as an agenda!

  19. I thought the article on farm subsidies was right on target! My husband has been saying that for years – minus the violent part, which didn’t offend me … it just made me laugh. But what really gets me is that the Republician party is supposed to be for LESS government…how does that work? Well it gets Bush elected again…at least that’s what his obvious intent is. And I find it nauseating how some people who hate Clinton try to say he’s a rapist….just because one of our presidents gets ‘serviced’ does not mean this, they’re plenty of other presidential ‘indescretions’ that involve ‘popular, respected’ presidents that are far worser and not known about to the general public. And the impeachment stunk of Republician’s extremes to get the office back into their ‘rich, power mongers’ hands. My only hope is that the Democratics will get it TOGETHER and find someone who can beat Bush by a great number so they can’t pull the same tricks they did to get him in the office this time! This coming election I say RALLY DEMOCRATICS RALLY !! If you want the country back into the hands of “real people” without corrupt big business as an agenda!

  20. Isn’t it time we wake up to the fact that “Dems & Repubs” are sides of the same coin. If someone steals your T.V. , he is stealing part of your life. You had to spend part of your life working to buy that T.V. When the IDIOTS in washington take your money in taxs it’s the same as the thief who steals from you. Who gave them the right.We need to make a stand.It’s time for the next revolution!!!

  21. I am a strong Bush supporter. I thank god that he is president right now and not, dare I say it, Al Gore. But I also tend to be farther right wing than many republicans. I too am outraged at subsidies of any kind. If your product has no market or you cannot make any money off of your product then you shouldn’t be f*cking selling it! That is simple economics. Ever since FDR’s move to socialism, or New Deal as it is more commonly called, everybody thinks it is the role of the government to take care of you. Its like the whole deal with social security. I have a solution: get rid of it, completely 100% gone. I can invest my own money thank you very much and make a lot more than social security. PLus my generation is screwed. I am 17 years old. There is no way social security will last to my generation and I’m thankful for that. I don’t want it. I don’t need handouts from the government. People think that these tax refunds are great and all but look at what taxes are in the first place. The government stealing money from you! So as long as you can legal find a way to justify stealing the government can do it all it wants, just nobody else can. Its ridiculous. The government should provide for the security of its citizens with laws, courts, police and most importantly, the military. That is all the government is there for. At least we have a president now who has the balls to use our military and fight back against those attacking us. Unlike Clinton. He obviously didn’t have the balls, he let so much go and talked his way out of everything. It has come to light that he has raped numerous women and I’m sure all women and many men would agree with me that if you have to resort to rape you obviously have no balls. Finally we have a decent president in theory, now he just needs to live up to the promises he campaigned on.

  22. Wow! I chose not to comment about the farm subsidies because, I thought that you would have a TON of similar comments. I made a mistake. I agree with you at OUTRAGED! Giving people money to NOT do something is crazy. But, if you would like to, I work at a preschool and you can pay me to not take care of your kids, if you want. Just an idea.

    what do you mean by “big farmers”?100,1000 acres.If you investigate you will find that farmers can lose 150$/acre due to price problems at the Mercantile exchange!!! well you did get it right about GEORGE WILL..

  23. You’re calling lemmings by their true names. So am I. See ya on the other side..
    God Bless,
    John Ray

    This doesn’t surprise me because Bush allowed his robber baron allies in the energy industry to swindle billion and billions of dollars from Californians. The agencies whose purpose is to protect the public from being ripped off have been stacked with appointees from those very industries, case in point the FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Committee). Bushes’ handpicked Attorney General, John Ashcroft who lost his last election to a dead man has been pretty useless also by not prosecuting the crooks running Enron and a half dozen other mostly Texas-based Energy Companies.

  24. This is in response to your view of the farm subsidy. The same thing happens in Canada as you are well aware, with an exception. Money in the form of Federal govt contracts and other forms of leverage is often given to Quebec to keep the Separists at bay – probably quite unnecessary, except that our Prime Minister comes from a riding in Quebec!! Currently, a Quebec consulting firm has been given a third annual contract to produce a survey report – the current report reads virtuall the same as the previous years!! It was ever thus.
    You might want to read Willie Nelson’s book “The Facts Of Life” in which he supports vigourously the small farmer, pointing out that they are the first and most important rung of the ladder.
    Those who has gits! Cordially Phil Barrett West Vancouver BC

  25. Re. your George Bush Outrage. RIGHT ON!! I live in Texas
    and voted for GW the first time he ran for govenor because
    I thought he would make a good one. I voted for him the
    second time he ran because I his opponent was a real
    jerk. I voted for him even though I knew he was lying through
    his teeth when he said if he was re-elected, he would
    complete his term. He ran for govenor in the first place
    merely as a stepping stone to the presidency.

    And, yes, I voted for him for president because he was
    the lesser of two evils. But I’m damn tired of voting for
    evil at all!!

    Hang in there and give them all Hell.

  26. Dear Outrage, You’ve got it right, its the idea that’s fundamental. I worry about the fate of this country when I see so many willing to follow anyone blindly. Its how tyrannies are founded. Thanks.

  27. “Hypocrite Bush!”
    was pretty much on the money, and the follow-up “Can WE Talk?” seemed pretty much on point too untill I got to the point where you direct people seeking moderation to The New York Times. I laughed out loud!
    Those self-righteous, foaming-at-the-mouth, psychopathic
    leftist extremists could’nt be further. I rank them just a rung lower than the Village Voice when it comes to fair, moderate reporting.

  28. Ok. Let’s talk. It seems to me you are anti-Bush. This
    man was left one hell of a mess, by the slickest crook
    since FDR. The democrates did not rally around him
    at 9/ll but have fought him in every way possible. He can’t
    even get his fed. judges appointed because of a fuzz
    brain from Vermont. Bill Clinton had his appointed before
    his $200.00 haircut. The democrats are running for the
    next election and make no bones about it. Bush did not
    want a farm bill %80 higher than the one we had, but he
    was forced to do something. Just like Ronald R. was
    forced to do many things, since he didn’t have the Congress
    behind him, he got credit for Congress’s spendthrift ways,
    when to appease them was the only way he could get
    needed things done. President Bush’s dad has been
    used against him hundreds of times, when Prince Albert
    Gore’s father was not mentioned once that I know of and
    he was one of the Greatest Crooks the South has ever
    known, and in it with his own son with deals with Occidental
    Oil and Big Tobbaco. Prince Albert still gets checks from
    these people for the mineral rights on his farm. Who by
    the way built his house in Tennessee for him. Thank God
    Gore was not President on 9/11. Your ‘Rage’ about the
    Big Farmers goes back to FDR. At the time, that was
    where the votes were, on the farms. Now, that’s where
    the money is. The Federal Income Tax was raised in
    WWII by FDR as a ‘temorary War Tax to be removed at
    the end of the war. Before that hardly any working man
    needed to pay any. I did not read these things, I lived
    through them. The only difference between a Big Farmer
    and a do-nothing on welfare is the size of their checks.
    Your “Rage” was really very old news.
    As for violence, I believe that anyone who steals tax money
    in the United States should be banished or shot. It is the
    same as treason. So I guess I believe in violence mixed
    with justice. You, also must be democrats, all Prince
    Albert Gore had to do was take his home state (TN) and
    Master Bill Clinton’s home state where he replaced God
    in some quarters (AR) and he would have had enough
    electorial votes to win the election, without any dumd
    attempt to steal a Republican State Like Florida, that
    had a Republician Gov. Republician House and Senate.
    What a boob. And yes I read and highly respect George
    Will and even read The New York Times. I have loved
    RAGE in the past, and do not intend to quit. But don’t try
    to upset me with things that are over 50 years old and that
    the american people are not going to do anything about.
    I have enough problems with ignorant peacniks that want
    to take up all the guns.

  29. I find it ridiculous to make comparisons of supporting small grocers to assisting farmers.While we are overwhelmed by a store on every corner for “our convienence”, this is not so for the remaining farmers who fight the elements themselves to be sucessful. How easy it would be for them to sell out, move into a condo, and perhaps, start up a small grocery. Oh, wait. They can’t because there’s no food to sell.I take it you like to eat when you’re not at your computers.We need the farmers far more than small lawyer practices [God forbid.] For that matter, we need them far more than biased, liberal web sites.

  30. Bush is slowly being exposed one ugly layer at a time.

    The man(?) is a national embarsment who can not ever take the blame for something he did, or in this case did not do.
    Bush knew of the problems with the Enron corp. but did not inform the public of the very serious financial problems within.

    The Enron problems sound a lot like the Savings and Loans debaucial and Colorado Cabel problems that he and his brother made a lot of money in. I think he is up to his old tricks.
    Speaking of tricks, how about not letting anyone know of the threats against the people of this country.
    Hell he did not even warn the airlines. We have the right to bear arms, but not proctect ouselves by making a clear cut decision. To fly or not to fly. I am just as sure the people in the WTC, could have made their choice to stay home, or even evacuate the building sooner.

    Mr. Bush is a person who can not take responsability, neither can he make correct decisions, the only person playing a blame game is Bush!
    Lorraine

    I wonder if he would have won Florida (Won-Chuckle) if his brother (famous for Colorodo Cabel, and Savings and loans, do we really have that short of an attention span)

  31. Read the “feedback’ comment with interest!

    Here in Australia we get a VERY warped view of the world and values via an extremely parochial media.

    Having travelled abroad on a regular basis and seen how the ‘real world’ ticks, I enjoy your comments and I felt they were appropriate re the Bush issue.

    Keep up the good work!

  32. Bush raped Texas and left our state with a bigger liar and looser for Governor. Bush’s pro-big business, screw the people politics will continue unchallenged because he was sly enough to appoint Adolph(John Ashcroft) Hitler to quell the American public. We have been threatened that we are either with them or against them and you may be taken out of your home and held as a terrorist without due process. Welcome to AMERICA, land of the free(as long as you agree with us).

  33. I don’t disagree with your postion on farm subsidies, but I take stong exception with your advocation of violence. I realize that this is the “Outrage” and as such we must take what you say with a grain of salt. Even in jest, advocating violence is not acceptable. That being said, I feel strongly that business should be made to compete fairly. Those unable to compete economically are naturally elminated. Let the strong survive. That is capitolism. The higher cost of food production will invevitably even itself out with lower taxes. The same goes for tariffs on steel and lumber. If Americans cannot find ways to compete with global products, so be it. If we are to trumpet capitolism and free markets around the world, then we must stay true to our words and act accordingly. The world is laughing at us, they view us as hypocrites… democrats or republicans it doesn’t matter because ideologically, the game is the same… pork for votes. In actuality, we all lose.

    To Walter and Lorraine:
    You are fools. You believe and accept all that the liberal meida tell you is true. The fact is, you have no idea what you believe. You are angry still that Gore lost the election, but do you think for a second that if your man had won ANYTHING would be different today?? Quit fooling yourself, this bill would have passed. Enron would still have failed and taken billions of investor and employee money with it. Warnings about possible terrorist attacks would have been ignored and gone unremedied. The WTC would still have been hit by 2 airplanes with just as many dead. No body would have listened if warned. Are we taking more seriously today the ambiguous terror warnings issued today than we would have 12 months ago. NO!!! This has no more to do with our president as it does with a general failure with big govenment and your foolish notion that it can solve all of our nations ills. We are dealing with age old problems that Bush inherited from generations of liberal leadership!!!!!

  34. hi ! –

    thanx and kudos to you for “whacking” dubya…

    the man is a criminal, and altho slick willy is certainly also a kingpin, he was mainly put in for the purpose he served – to set up the “executive orders” that nullified our constitution, and then make himself and all
    liberal/democrats look like rotten jerks and fools so georgie junior could waltz through the “response” to
    this “surprise attack” on america…

    i missed whatever these airheads are complaining about your reference to “violence”; perhaps they
    can’t take a joke, or perhaps they are not aware of the 300 or so close “associates” of clinton who turned up dead in “small aircraft crashes”, “suicides”, and the like…

    GWB had no problem beating that record in the first few months of our “war on terror” – thousands of homeless and starving women and children in areas that had little to do with al quaeda or taliban; some of them even supported OUR fighting AGAINST the northern alliance back then, when they were “the enemy”, being big bad russia’s allies, and are now paying dearly as the alliance takes over their towns and villages…

    cook the b*st*rd, (figuratively and editorially speaking of course)

    🙂

    – they didn’t even vote for the guy, and now all of a sudden they’ve decided that they must have – they don’t even know what the hell is going on, for christ’s sake !
    good grace to you
    ciao fer now xxx -velvet

  35. Regarding subsidies- the federal government has no constitutional foundation for them. James Madison said it best(and this may not be exact) “I can find nowhere in the constitution where the government is permitted to spend the taxpayers money for the benefit of others.” Of course the whole idea of subsidies is to buy votes. That’s why we have the majority of citizens who believe that the government, someone, is supposed to take care of them.

  36. Hey. I like every one of your outrage posts. Your thinking is dead on with mine and I appreciate reading your articles because I realize that not everyone is a mindless blind sheep – something that sadly most Americans seem to have become.

    The government has been outright raping us for years, and it’s time for someone to speak up. Thanks.

  37. Watch Your Language!

    Please do not use coarse language on this comment system. Go back and modify your comments.

    Please clarify what coarse language is for a WebSite designed for RAGE BACK. I have sent the same message to the CBC,NBC,ABC,CNN and every freelance reporter in the world not to get this message.

    Who do you work for President Bush.

  38. Somebody better bring God into the big picture, because in the end that’s what it is all about. Of course by the time the end comes it will be too late for many. At least we have a leader of our country who has respect and praise for our Maker.

  39. That’s it. I’ve had it! After a zillion emails on how to enlarge my penis so I could be taking more Viagara, herbal Viagara, The most common form of spam that I get now each day by the dozens is about spam blocking or joining the national opt out registry which I already paid to join on a site only to find out that it is a free government initiative and is being seriously challenged in the Fed District court, where a Fed. Judge recent rules going to the Supreme court for resolution.

    I think I make some fired eggs and spam, the real spam, pork product.

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